scheiß amis...

Zeitung: CIA betreibt Geheimgefängnisse in Osteuropa


 Der US-Auslandsgeheimdienst CIA hält einem Zeitungsbericht zufolge hochrangige Terrorverdächtige in geheimen Gefängnissen in Osteuropa fest.

Zu den acht Standorten für das verborgene Gefängnissystem gehörten neben Thailand und Afghanistan auch "mehrere Demokratien in Osteuropa", berichtete die "Washington Post" heute unter Berufung auf US- und ausländische Beamte.

Die Namen der osteuropäischen Länder hielt die Zeitung nach eigenen Angaben auf Bitten von US-Vertretern zurück. Diese fürchten demnach, ein Bekanntwerden der Gefängnisse könne zu Anschlagsversuchen führen.


im Geheimen foltert es sich doch gleich besser...

verstehe nicht warum die US-Presse diese Vorgänge nicht schon längst public gemacht hat; sollte die Stimmung gegen Bush jetzt mal ordentlich kippen, dann kommen sicherlich noch viele nette Details vom "Kampf gegen den Terror" zu Tage...

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ist aktuell leider nur für Member im Internet zu lesen...schade; wird aber hoffentlich spätestens morgen auch woanders zu finden sein...

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The CIA has been holding and interrogating al Qaeda captives at a secret facility in Eastern Europe, part of a covert prison system established after the September 11, 2001, attacks, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday.
The Soviet-era compound is part of a network that has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand and Afghanistan, the newspaper reported, citing U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.

Thailand denied it was host to such a facility.

"There is no fact in the unfounded claims," government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee said.

The newspaper said the existence and locations of the facilities were known only to a handful of officials in the United States and, usually, only to the president and a few top intelligence officers in each host country.

The CIA has not acknowledged the existence of a secret prison network, the Post said. A CIA spokesman did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

The prisons are referred to as "black sites" in classified U.S. documents and virtually nothing is known about who the detainees are, how they are interrogated or about decisions on how long they will be held, the report said.

About 30 major terrorism suspects have been held at black sites while more than 70 other detainees, considered less important, were delivered to foreign intelligence services under a process known as "rendition," the paper said, citing U.S. and foreign intelligence sources.

The top 30 al Qaeda prisoners are isolated from the outside world, they have no recognized legal rights and no one outside the CIA is allowed to talk with or see them, the sources told the newspaper.

The paper, citing several former and current intelligence and other U.S. government officials, said the CIA used such detention centers abroad because in the United States it is illegal to hold prisoners in such isolation.

The Washington Post said it was not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program at the request of senior U.S. officials.

The officials argued that disclosure could disrupt counterterrorism efforts or make the host countries targets for retaliation, the newspaper said.    

The secret detention system was conceived shortly after the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington, when the working assumption was that another strike was imminent, the report said.

Surapong, the Thai government spokesman, said Bangkok was probably mentioned because it helped catch Hambali, an Indonesian accused of being Osma bin Laden's key link to Southeast Asia, in 2003.

Thailand's security cooperation with the United States would have to be done "in an open and legitimate manner", he said


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Report: CIA operates secret prisons

U.S. won't confirm use of Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe

Wednesday, November 2


Bush adviser Stephen Hadley: "The test of your principles is what you do when no one's looking."  

Suspected terrorists in U.S. custody are being treated humanely, Bush administration officials said Wednesday after a report that American agents are holding prisoners in a worldwide network of secret facilities.

National security adviser Stephen Hadley would not comment on the accuracy of a Washington Post report that top al Qaeda suspects were being held for questioning "at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe."

But he said President Bush has demanded that U.S. agents treat prisoners "in a way that is consistent with our values and principles."

"Some people say that the test of your principles is what you do when no one's looking," Hadley said.

"The president has insisted that whether it is in the public or it is in private, the same principles will apply and the same principles will be respected," he said. "To the extent people do not meet up, measure up to those principles, there will be accountability."

The Post cited U.S. officials and those from other governments familiar with the arrangement for its report. The network, the Post said, is "a central element" in the CIA's battle against terrorism, but its existence was known to only a handful of officials at home and abroad.

If true, the arrangement suggests U.S. agents are engaged in activities "that under U.S. law and in U.S. territory and by U.S. personnel would be clearly illegal," said former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr, who was once a federal prosecutor.

"There are very serious questions also that what's going on here is also contrary to documents and treaties that the U.S. is a party to," the former congressman from Georgia told CNN.

But Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Bush has ordered his administration to act "in a way that is consistent with our legal obligations, both domestically and internationally," when dealing with prisoners.

"If we find that people are not meeting the standard, there are investigations and people will be held accountable," he said.

High-level al Qaeda operatives in U.S. custody, such as Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, are often held in what U.S. officials describe simply as "undisclosed locations" around the world.

CNN has previously reported that Abu Zubaydah and other CIA prisoners were once held in Thailand at a facility that has since been closed, and a few are held at the U.S. military's Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba.

Human rights groups have criticized the practice of "rendition," in which the CIA purportedly has been allowed to secretly transfer terrorist suspects overseas for interrogation. (Full story)

U.S. officials said the spy agency has gone to great lengths to ensure that prisoners were not tortured, but some of those seized and shipped to third countries have said they were drugged, beaten and electrocuted while in custody overseas.

Though the international monitor Human Rights Watch named former Soviet bloc countries where it says the CIA detainees are held, the Post and CNN have not identified those countries at the request of U.S. officials.

Human Rights Watch has published the names of towns in Europe where prisoners have been held and the identification numbers of aircraft used to transport them -- a tactic that angers many intelligence professionals.

"The exposure of such, either firms or aircraft, just undoes years of cover building and makes America weaker," said Michael Scheuer, a former CIA officer who once led the agency's hunt for al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden.

Human Rights Watch spokesman Tom Malinowsky said the practice of holding suspects incommunicado in secret facilities has done "enormous damage" to the reputation of the United States without producing useful intelligence.

His group and others say suspected terrorists should be prosecuted rather than held indefinitely.

But U.S. intelligence officials say the prisoners are producing useful information and that they do not want to give that up.

Allegations that Americans have tortured prisoners have dogged the Bush administration since April 2004, when graphic photographs of Army reservists mistreating prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq became public.

But Hadley said more than a dozen investigations have been conducted into the treatment of prisoners in U.S. custody, and procedures have been revised as needed.

In October the Senate voted 90-9 to require American troops to follow interrogation standards set in the Army Field Manual and barred "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of prisoners in U.S. custody.

The provision was not included in a House bill, and the White House has threatened to veto a $440 billion Pentagon spending bill if the measure is part of the final legislation. (Full story)

The administration says existing law already prohibits the mistreatment of prisoners in American custody and the amendment would restrict Bush's power as commander-in-chief.


Lügenpack !; mehr fällt mir dazu nicht ein...wenn sie doch eh "normal" behandelt werden (würden), warum bräuchte es dann denn Geheimgefängnisse????; diese Penner...

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"Inakzeptable Bedingungen"

Rumsfeld: Nur Rotes Kreuz darf mit Guantanamo-Gefangenen sprechen.




  Beobachter der Vereinten Nationen werden nach den Worten von US-Verteidigungsminister Donald Rumsfeld bei dem Besuch im US-Gefangenenlager Guantanamo nicht mit den Inhaftierten sprechen dürfen.

Das werde nur den Vertretern des Internationalen Roten Kreuzes gestattet, die seit Jahren Zugang zu den Gefangenen hätten, sagte Rumsfeld am Dienstag in Washington.


"Selbst China besser"


Die UNO hatte den USA inakzeptable Auflagen für die geplante Inspektion des Gefangenenlagers Guantanamo vorgeworfen. Selbst China stelle für Besuche in seinen Gefängnissen keine solchen Bedingungen, sagte der UNO-Sonderberichterstatter für Folter, der Österreicher Manfred Nowak, am Montag in New York.


"Sie (die USA) sagen, sie hätten nichts zu verbergen. Warum wird es uns dann nicht erlaubt, mit den Gefangenen zu sprechen?" fragte er. Blieben die USA bei ihrer Haltung, habe der Besuch keinen Zweck.


Dutzende im Hungerstreik


Auf dem amerikanischen Stützpunkt Guantanamo Bay auf Kuba halten die USA 520 Terrorverdächtige ohne Anklage oder Prozess gefangen.


Dutzende der Gefangenen befinden sich im Hungerstreik. Menschenrechtsorganisationen wie Amnesty International haben der Regierung in Washington vorgeworfen, damit gegen die Grundsätze des Rechtsstaats zu verstoßen.



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Reuters:

ICRC seeks access to US-held terror suspects


GENEVA (Reuters) - The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) called on Thursday for access to all foreign terrorism suspects held by the United States after a report of a covert CIA prison system for al Qaeda captives.

The Washington Post said on Wednesday that the CIA was hiding and interrogating inmates at a secret facility in Eastern Europe, among so-called "black sites" in eight countries under a global network set up after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

"We are concerned at the fate of an unknown number of people captured as part of the so-called global war on terror and held at undisclosed places of detention," Antonella Notari, chief ICRC spokeswoman, told Reuters in response to a question.

"Access to detainees is an important humanitarian priority for the ICRC and a logical continuation of our current work in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay," she added.

Poland and Romania, close U.S. allies in ex-communist central Europe, on Thursday denied suggestions by the New York-based Human Rights Watch that they were among countries hosting secret Central Intelligence Agency detention centers.

"There are no CIA bases in Romania," Romanian Prime Minister Calin Tariceanu told reporters.

Former Polish defense minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski also denied the report as did a senior security official from the new government which took over on Monday.

"Holding foreign nationals on Polish territory would be illegal," the official told Reuters. "I don't think any Polish government would want to do that," he said, adding that a government statement would follow later on Thursday.

Szmajdzinski ruled out any detention of such suspects in Poland. "We aren't detaining terrorists, or interrogating them, or doing anything else with them," he told private Radio Zet.

Carroll Bogert, associate director of the New York-based Human Rights Watch, said earlier in New York the group had indications Poland and Romania were among countries hosting the alleged CIA prisons.

She said the group based its assumption on flight logs, such as a Boeing 737 having made trips to eastern Europe from Afghanistan and countries in the Middle East.

One flight log showed that a plane went from Kabul to northeastern Poland on September 22, 2003. That was the same month that "we know several CIA prisoners who were held in Afghanistan were transferred out of Afghanistan and the next day the same plane landed at a military airport in Romania," Bogert said.

The Romanian airfield had been closed to the public and the media for some time, she added.

The Washington Post said it had not published the names of the European countries at the request of senior U.S. officials who said disclosure could disrupt counterterrorism efforts or make the host countries targets for retaliation.

U.S. officials declined direct comment on the report, which was likely to stir up fresh criticism of the Bush administration's treatment of terrorism suspects.

Russia's FSB security service and Bulgaria's foreign ministry both denied such facilities existed on their territory as did Thailand, which was named in the Washington Post report.

The ICRC's Notari said the organization had pressed the United States for several years to provide formal notification of all foreign people held as well as access to them.

ICRC officials, including doctors, regularly visit the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, where some of the roughly 505 foreign terrorism suspects held are believed to be carrying out a hunger strike begun in early August.

"We are continuing our visits to Guantanamo Bay and monitoring of the situation. Our team was there last week," Notari said, declining to give details.

The Swiss-based neutral humanitarian organization monitors whether prison conditions and treatment of detainees comply with the 1949 Geneva Conventions, which lay down rules for treating those captured in international armed conflicts.

Inmate abuse by U.S. soldiers at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison was strongly condemned in the Muslim world and among U.S. allies, while human rights groups regularly denounce the holding of suspects for years without charge at Guantanamo Bay.


Eine Ablehnung der amerikanischen Regierung würde einem Foltereingeständnis gleichkommen...

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EU prüft Berichte über CIA-Geheimgefängnisse

Brüssel (dpa) - Die Europäische Union prüft amerikanische Medienberichte über angebliche Geheimgefängnisse des US- Geheimdienstes CIA in Europa. "Wir werden uns bemühen, auf technischer Ebene herauszufinden, was die Wahrheit ist", sagte ein Sprecher der EU-Kommission am Donnerstag in Brüssel.

"Das ist eine sehr aufregende Geschichte, aber wir wissen bisher nicht, was Sache ist." Die "Washington Post" hatte berichtet, der US-Geheimdienst unterhalte mehrere geheime Gefängnisse für mutmaßliche Terroristen in einigen osteuropäischen Staaten sowie in Asien. Vor allem wichtige Mitglieder der Terrororganisation El Kaida seien hier verhört worden.

Polen hat bereits bestritten, dass es dort jemals solche Gefängnisse gegeben habe. Auch der rumänische Ministerpräsident Calin Popescu-Tariceanu wies den Bericht zurück. Der tschechische Innenminister Frantisek Bublan sagt, Prag sei von niemandem um die Einrichtung solcher Gefängnisse gebeten worden.

Der Kommissionssprecher wollte nicht darüber spekulieren, was passiere, falls es in einem EU-Staat tatsächlich Geheimgefängnisse der CIA gebe: "Aber die Vorstellung von geheimen Gefängnissen scheint mir mit der Europäischen Grundrechts-Charta unvereinbar zu sein." Es sei zu früh, um sie über mögliche Sanktionen gegen EU-Mitglieder Gedanken zu machen.
 

 

Sanktionen gegen die Amis bitte!!  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/.../AR2005110101644.html  

die staaten der eu sollten untereinander zusammenhalten. es kann nich sein, das 5 länder den kurs der amis unterstützen während der rest dagegen ist.

mfg ds  

 

 

wirtschaftlicher Interessen sind Methoden, wie beschrieben, nichts außergewöhnliches, denn das Feld der Finsternis wird nicht nur von Amerikanern bestellt.
Das sich jetzt eine von der EU eingesetzte Kommission um Findung der Wahrheit bemüht, halte ich für puren Populismus um die Medien zu füttern, - was die Amerikaner in ihrem Verantwortungsbereich daraus machen, siehe Irakkrieg.
Der Abschlussbericht wird, nach Ende der Untersuchung ein paar Meter dick, ohne Inhalt in die Kameras gehalten & verschwindet danach schleunigst in irgendeinem Archiv.
Wer glaubt den ernsthaft das politisch/wirtschaftlich motivierte Entscheidungen Konsequenzen für die Verantwortlichen hat.

 

 

Die Leitung des rumänischen Militärflughafens Mihail Kogalniceanu hat Medienberichte über Landungen von CIA-Flugzeugen mit Gefangenen an Bord auf dem Airport dementiert.
Der Generaldirektor des Flughafens am Schwarzen Meer, Corneliu Balan, sagte nach einer Meldung der Nachrichtenagentur Mediafax vom Samstag, er habe in den Flughafenunterlagen alle Zivil- und Militärflüge im Zeitraum 2000 bis 2005 überprüft und keine Angaben zu den erwähnten Flügen oder CIA-nahen Firmen gefunden.
Die Menschenrechtsorganisation "Human Rights Watch" (HRW) hatte berichtet, dass der US-Geheimdienst im September 2003 Gefangene aus Afghanistan und dem Irak nach Kogalniceanu in Rumänien geflogen habe. Rumäniens Ministerpräsident Calin Popescu-Tariceanu, das Innen- und Verteidigungsministerium sowie der rumänische Geheimdienst SRI hatten den Bericht bereits dementiert.  

so wirds wohl leider wieder kommen...

zu Rumänien: ich vermute mal es gibt auch keine öffentlichen Flugunterlagen (mehr) zu den Flügen von hohen Saudis nach den Anschlägen von New York...tsts

gruss
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Wie alle , die darüber berichten, bin ich gegen geheime Gefängnisse etc. Allerdings gebe ich zu bedenken, daß es hier vermutlich auch eine Verhältnismäßigkeit gibt. Gäbe es keinen Bin Laden und ähnliches, so würden die Gefängnisse vermutlich nicht existieren. Denn anzunehmen, daß das Militär diese Stellen einrichten, um sich zu vergnügen, ist ja wohl undenkbar. Zudem muß bedacht werden, daß auf der anderen Seite der Front erheblich weniger zimperlich mit Gefangenen und der Zivilbevölkerung umgegangen wird. Ich gebe zu bedenken, daß man Menschen, die zu hunderten Kinder abrichten, um als lebende Bomben zu funktionieren, nicht mit Wattebäuschen gegenübertreten kann. Unsere Westliche Demokratie mit allen Problemen und Einschränkungen, muß bis zu einem bestimmten Punkt auch wehrhaft sein, sonst wird sie uns weggenommen.
Ich bin für Aufklärung aber auch für Realitätssinn bei der Interprätation im Sinne des Erhalts unserer Lebensform.  

läßt sich so rechtfertigen oder relativieren.
Wo gehobelt wird, fallen nun mal Späne..
Wahrscheinlich war der Nationalsozialismus auch gar nicht soo übel?  

Für mich ist unbegreiflich, wie intelligente Menschen leichtfertig die Front wechseln, wenn es das Argumentations-Fähnlein erfordert. Diese Welt ist kein Honigtopf. Jedoch schaue ich lieber auf die westliche DEmokratie und die USA als auf den Staatsdirigismus und die UDSSR. Ich vermute, daß es dem LjuKOS-Chef erheblich schlechter geht, als den Gefangenen in unserem land und und und. Gesunde Argumente leben nun mal vom Vergleich. Richtig ist, daß man nicht mehr vergleichen kann, wenn man sozialistisch-kommunistisch alles glatthobelt. Im übrigen waren es die Amerikaner, die Freund Adolf vertrieben haben.. steht so in den Geschichtsbüchern. Aber, die sind ja auch gefälscht, oder!?  

Wer glaubwürdig für Freiheit einzutreten will und dies nicht nur vorgibt, kann nicht permanent und systematisch auf die Wahrung von Menschenrechten pfeifen.
Da kannste noch soviel schönzureden versuchen!  

Fakt ist nun mal, dass Folter in westlichen, demokratischen Rechtsstaaten verboten ist und es Genfer Konventionen gibt, welche vorschreiben was nun Folter ist oder nicht...

und Fakt ist wohl auch, dass die US-Regierung nach den Anschlägen vom 11. September sich über dieses Verbot (im Geheimen) widersetzt hat...

Richtig unpassend wirds dann, wenn ein Land selber foltert bzw. folter, Gefangene auf Kuba ohne Anwälte und ohne Recht auf einen fairen Prozess  festhält und dann in andere Länder einmarschiert mit dem Vorwand diese demokratiseren zu wollen...so eine Vorgehensweise macht eben nicht unbedingt beliebt auf der Welt...Ex-Präsident Charter hat dies vor einige Tagen auch mal anklingen lassen und auch gesagt, dass das Ansehen der US noch niemals so beschädigt war wie in diesen Tagen...

gruss
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wirbelt gerade Staub auf in USA,der Fall kommt jetzt vor den Supreme Court.Salim Ahmed Hamdan wird in Guantamo Bay gehalten ,ihm werden Angriffe auf Zivilisten,Mord und Terrorismus vorgeworfen,er versichert aber,er sei nie Mitglied von Al Quaida gewesen und habe nie Waffen auf Amerikaner gerichtet.Hier werden erstmals die Militärtribunale der Bushadministration für verdächtige Ausländer getestet und debattiert über Nationale Sicherheit und persönliche Freiheit.Sein Prozess stoppte vor einem Jahr ,weil ein Richter in Washington der Meinung war,sein Prozess verletze die Genfer Konvention und die Verfassung der Vereinigten Staaten!so heute bei der New York Times

Bedauerlicherweise war es jedoch Judge John G. Roberts der danach gegen Hamdan entschied und der jetzt der neue oberste Richter geworden ist.Dass der Oberste Gerichtshof die Sache jetzt an sich gezogen hat, enttäuscht die Administration.  

Bush Declares: 'We Do Not Torture'

PANAMA CITY, Panama (AP) -- President Bush on Monday defended U.S. interrogation practices and called the treatment of terrorism suspects lawful. "We do not torture," Bush declared in response to reports of secret CIA prisons overseas.

Bush supported an effort spearheaded by Vice President Dick Cheney to block or modify a proposed Senate-passed ban on torture.

"We're working with Congress to make sure that as we go forward, we make it possible, more possible, to do our job," Bush said. "There's an enemy that lurks and plots and plans and wants to hurt America again. And so, you bet we will aggressively pursue them. But we will do so under the law."

Cheney is seeking to persuade Congress to exempt the Central Intelligence Agency from the proposed torture ban if one is passed by both chambers.
 
Bush spoke at a news conference with Panamanian President Martin Torrijos on the same day the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to consider a challenge to the administration's military tribunals for foreign terror suspects.

In a case entailing a major test of the government's wartime powers, justices will decide whether Osama bin Laden's former driver can be tried for war crimes before military officers in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, U.S. military forces have held hundreds of suspects at known installations outside the United States, including at the Guantanamo Bay naval base.

On Monday, the Pentagon announced that five additional terror suspects at Guantanamo will face military trials on various charges including attacking civilians and murder. That brought to nine out of about 500 detainees at the facility who have been charged with criminal offenses.
   
Bush was asked about reports that the CIA was separately maintaining secret prisons in eastern Europe and Asia to interrogate al-Qaida suspects - and demands by the International Red Cross for access to them.

Without confirming or denying the existence of such prisons, Bush said, "Our country is at war, and our government has the obligation to protect the American people."

He pointedly noted that Congress shares that responsibility with the administration.

"We are finding terrorists and bringing them to justice. We are gathering information about where the terrorists may be hiding. We are trying to disrupt their plots and plans. Anything we do ... to that end in this effort, any activity we conduct, is within the law. We do not torture," Bush said.

The European Union is investigating reports of the CIA prisons. The story was first reported by The Washington Post.

In Washington, Senate Democrats pressed for the creation of an independent commission to investigate detainee abuse. They hope to attach the proposal to a defense bill the Senate is considering this week.

"We need a 9/11-type commission to restore credibility to this nation," said Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the senior Democrat on the Armed Services Committee.

Committee Chairman John Warner, R-Va., called the commission unnecessary. "Responsibility and accountability have been assessed," Warner said, echoing Pentagon arguments that it had already done a dozen major investigations into prisoner-abuse allegations.

But Levin said there are areas that have not been reviewed, such as the CIA's interrogation of prisoners, the exporting of prisoners to countries that engage in torture, and the role contractors play in interrogations.

Separately, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said Bush's comments in Panama, combined with Cheney's efforts to exempt the CIA from the torture ban, "only demonstrate that the White House learned nothing from Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo."

"This administration has consistently sought legal justifications for harsh techniques," Kennedy said.

The United States drew worldwide condemnation after photographs circulated showing guards at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad mistreating and humiliating prisoners


dieser kranke Typ...da sagt er in einem Satz, dass nicht gefoltert wird und 3 Sätze später möchte er, dass das CIA vom geplanten Folterverbot ausgeschlossen wird...???

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